Sam: How did you get into your career?

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Sarah: Actually, it kind of all started—well, it started before Severn—but I went to a school called Gibson Island Country School, which was in Pasadena. It closed down, but it was a really small school that was right before the causeway to get to Gibson Island, if you guys are familiar with that area at all, but not too far from here. It was a green school. It was very environmentally conscious—we were composting our lunch every day. It was right on the water, so we were raising oysters, raising terrapins, just very much spending time outside and really getting the idea that we're connected to the environment and it's our responsibility to take care of the environment. So that's kind of where my interest in environmental science started.

Then I came here in middle school and high school, and when I was in high school I took APES with a teacher—his name is Mr. Lennom. I don't think he works here anymore, but he was the best teacher ever. He was very passionate, very good at explaining why things were important and how we can be involved, and I also knew him personally. I swam with his kids. He was a very, very positive influence on me when I went to school here.

So with basically all of my schooling having kind of an environmental aspect to it, I ended up going to college at Baylor University in Texas, and I had no idea what I wanted my major to be, actually, but I was like, you know what, I like environmental science, so I did environmental studies because I didn't have to take chemistry. So I did studies instead of science, and then graduated from there. When I was looking for jobs, I just was more interested in all of the planning-related environmental jobs, so I got my urban planning degree with a certificate in sustainable urbanism. Now I'm an environmental planner. I kind of put those two degrees together and do all the neat stuff that I just talked about. That's how it started.

 

Olivia: So what does environmental documentation or urban planning look like for you, like day-to-day on a project?

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Sarah: It's very technical, much more technical than I thought it would be when I got into it, but it depends on the client that you're working for, what kind of analysis you'll be doing, and it depends on the project—what kind of analyses are necessary. So some projects you need to look at wetlands, historic sites, biology, community impacts, noise, cumulative impacts, and induced growth. Like some projects that we work on, they expect more development to happen in the area because of them, like a road. So depending on how many of those different analyses we complete, that kind of dictates what our day-to-day will look like.

But for me, most of the time I'm doing desktop research. I pull a lot of data from the Census website, and you guys probably have never visited the Census website—good for you. Keep it that way as long as you can. But the Census website has all the socioeconomic data. We look at minority populations, disabled populations, limited English-speaking populations, access to vehicles, access to internet—so many more that I feel like I'm blanking on—but we collect all that data.

Then we analyze it, and we collect that data using geography, so every area everywhere in the United States is broken down into locations called blocks, block groups, tracts, and then cities, counties, states. So we have really specific areas that we look at outside of our project locations, and then we use all the data that we collect to kind of show which areas are the most vulnerable, which areas have the highest likelihood to negatively impact the community. If there's wetlands or forested areas or critical species that are identified, an area will be flagged as a “don't build here” kind of thing.

So we're doing a lot of analysis and then writing our findings, and then we package that and deliver it. And then the people—like our clients—will decide either we are moving forward with this project, or we're not moving forward with this project, or we need to adjust and then we'll move forward. So most of the time, my day-to-day is writing and research.

 

Olivia: What are the biggest risks associated with environmental factors or socioeconomic factors in places like Maryland or Texas?

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Sarah: There are so many. I'm thinking of a project that I was asked to work on, and I declined it because I personally objected to the project, and I feel like it will have a lot of negative outcomes that they're not taking seriously.

There's a project in Maryland, and I guess it's like northwestern Maryland. It's in Carroll County, Baltimore County, and Frederick County. It’s a transmission line project… so there's a project that is happening through Maryland. It starts in Pennsylvania, actually—they're producing electricity there, and they're going straight through Maryland, and they're taking electricity to Virginia to power the data centers that are built there.

Data centers, if you're not familiar, are very easy to build in Virginia, and there are a lot of them. And we are on the same grid as Virginia, which means the energy that they are using there for their data centers impacts us as well and makes electricity more expensive for us, which you probably don't need to worry about right now, but when you're older and you pay bills, it will be more of an issue.

Anyway, that project is going to be taking over 500 acres of forest. It's going to be taking people's generational farmland that they have been living on—for some of them, hundreds of years—that will no longer be in their family. They will be displaced. There are bog turtles that are critically endangered that are in that area, in the wetlands that they're going to be removing. It's going to have visual impact to the battlefield—I can't remember the name of that park—but, and then also Great Falls State Park.

So there's going to be a lot of impacts to communities, to the forest, to the wetlands, to the species—like all of those things are basically unavoidable at this point because Virginia's building the data centers, and the impact on the grid is so large that we would be facing rolling blackouts, which means that in Maryland there would be times where we don't have electricity. So they have to build these transmission lines… well, that's their solution.

I guess that's just one project that has negative impact on the environment and people, and it makes money, so they do it. That's kind of the hard part of environmental planning—is that a lot of times you can see that something is going to negatively impact the environment, and there's not very much you can do. So there are unfortunate times where there are real impacts.

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Sam: You were talking partially a lot about the environment—what about the people that you work with specifically? We were talking about minority communities—how are those people impacted by your work?

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Sarah: So if there's a project that requires new right-of-way, which is just new property that does not already belong to the organization that is doing the project—they require new land to build whatever project they're doing—they will go to the owner of the house, building, business, whatever, and then say, “We're going to pay for this property, we need it for our project, and then we will give you the money to buy a new home or help you buy a new home.” So they can be displaced.

This is mostly for anybody that is located within the project footprint—not just high minority or low-income or high disability rates or whatever—but if we can show that there are too many displacements located in an area where there are vulnerable populations, then we can persuade the project decision-maker to not put the project in that location. So most of that is preventative and hopefully never impacts those communities.

Sometimes it does, but it's not disproportionate, so it's considered allowable—as long as it's not like two wealthy, affluent white families were displaced and 60 vulnerable families were displaced. That would be flagged as a problem, and they would have to move the project somewhere else or cancel the project.

For limited English-speaking populations, we always have to make sure that we're understanding what languages are spoken in an area so that we can provide all project materials in that language so that they have equal opportunity to participate in public participation. So every project under NEPA has to have public participation—maybe it's a public meeting, a public hearing, sometimes it's meetings with affected property owners, so they'll just meet with people who are right along the property. But every project has to have opportunity for people to give their feedback in our community: “This thing is happening, so this project isn't going to work,” or “We like this project and we want to move forward with it.”

So mostly those communities are looked at so that they're not impacted, or looked at so that we can properly communicate with them, make sure we're getting their viewpoint, make sure no one is being left out of the decision process.

 

Olivia: In that vein, how do local communities either get involved or stay informed during these projects?

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Sarah: That's a great question. It depends on what project it is. For something like what I do in my job now, it's mostly newspaper notices, and then for people who are living really close to the project, they'll get something called a notice—an opportunity to comment—in the mail. So they get a notice about the project, and then they get told that they'll have an opportunity to comment at a public meeting, and that the public meeting will occur on X date, and they have usually two weeks to submit their comments after the meeting.

For something like a plan, like a comprehensive plan for a city or county, or even an ecosystem management plan for different organizations like the Park Service probably has, and like Maryland State Environmental Department—they have things like that—where they'll be a lot more, I don't wanna say forthcoming, I guess, but maybe forthcoming. They put a lot more effort into reaching people. It's a bigger part of their process of collecting information of how they want to write the plan versus just getting feedback on a project that's already been designed.

So I used to work for a nonprofit, and we would do public meetings, stakeholder meetings—which is meetings with specific groups. We would meet with school teachers and principals, superintendents, and then people who work in utilities, people who work in healthcare—there's more groups—but just specific people with more specific viewpoints about their aspect of the community. And then we would make a website, have kind of mapping activities. We have also the public meeting, pop-up events, like at a park—meet people where they are kind of thing. If you don't hear about the meeting, you might run into us.

We would go to the high school, meet with students, have them answer questions about their town and what they think would be good for a plan. So there's so many ways that you can reach the community. Unfortunately, in the NEPA aspect of environmental planning, it's much more of checking a box, which is not my favorite thing. And then in more of comprehensive planning, or environmental planning in terms of ecosystem-based management or parks planning, that's more of they're really trying to reach you. They're gonna give you as many opportunities as they can to get your opinion. It's different depending.

 

Sam: That's cool. How does your education and your interest outside of work influence your outlook on the environment and conservation?

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Sarah: I feel like you guys have caught me at such a silly time in my career because I am pretty much ready to move on from my position that fits more of my personal outlook and view for environmental conservation and preservation, and just… I think when I started my job, like three years ago, I wasn't fully grasping what NEPA planning would be. I thought it would be more pro-environment than it has turned out to be, so yeah, I think there's a lot of things in my personal outlook for environmental conservation that I think it'd be done better through NEPA.

 

Sam: Why don’t you talk about where you want to go?

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Sarah: I'm thinking my next role hopefully will be more of an urban planning job that incorporates environmental aspects and urbanism—sustainable urbanism in particular. Things that we were talking a little bit about earlier, like green infrastructure in particular. And I have applied for several jobs in Baltimore that I'm fingers crossed will get, because I think Baltimore is such a great place to do that kind of work.

And things as simple as adding shade trees to every street—it makes a great impact on the environment because you're adding a microclimate that people can relax in, and you're lowering the urban heat index in the city. You're no longer gonna have as much climate variation from the city to a natural environment, and then those spaces foster community. You're like, “I wanna be outside in these areas because they feel like nature, they’re comfortable, and make me want to spend time with friends and family here instead of inside at our house all the time.”

So then getting even further into it, the more people you have outside enjoying those spaces that are in tune with the environment, then safety increases because there's more eyes on the street. So I think in my future role I'm hoping to kind of blend more of the urban planning and the environmental conservation together, because I think there's a lot of opportunity to improve cities and just general well-being and mental health and community.

 

Olivia: There's so much intersectionality—it’s really cool. I used to live in Baltimore, and I live right by Patterson Park, and I remember going there all the time and walking along the Inner Harbor, and I see what you mean about people gravitating towards those spaces because you know you wanna be there.

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Sarah: Yeah, it's a great area to look at as an example. There's always people walking around there. It's close to the water, close to restaurants, close to peoples’ houses. It's like—that's a great little neighborhood.

 

Olivia: You mentioned wildlife photography briefly. How has that—or has it—your values, or is there anything you wanna talk about specifically?

Sarah: I think that my interest stemmed from my values more than influencing my values. I think it's a really fun way to observe the environment, and then it requires a lot of patience. I don't know if you do specifically wildlife photography… specifically wildlife photography—it takes a lot of patience.

True wildlife photography is like you're not baiting an animal to come to you, you're not using calls to get them to come, or food or anything. You're really truly finding them in the wild, and that, I think, makes the most of an impact when you're out there and you see, like, I've just crossed this animal's path, and you get to witness what is it really doing in its time, how is it experiencing this area versus how am I experiencing this area.

For me, it just makes me realize I kind of have a very biocentric view of the world, which means all life is equal. I value an animal’s life… it sounds crazy to say, like, as much as a person's life, but like… I would never want to put any kind of harm on any of those animals or trees or whatever. It just makes you really appreciate the complexity of the ecosystem, each animal, and then I think that furthers my interest in conserving all of it and making a society where we're more intertwined with it versus getting rid of it and putting our stuff.

 

Sam: Is there any specific environment or animal that you're particularly interested in?

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Sarah: Birds. I love birds.​​ I love photographing birds just because I think it's so cool that they are dinosaurs. Like, I don't know, just their history is really interesting. Once you understand them a little bit more, you can really see what's happening around you—like they're having this whole society above us. Each species is talking to each other, this species is intermingling with themselves.

Some birds are like—they'll see a hawk or a cat or something that's a threat to them, and they'll sound an alarm to every other bird there, and then it'll go quiet, like they're hiding. Or there's some birds that, if they sound the alarm, then all the birds will come together and attack that thing. They're very in tune with each other, and when you kind of get what's going on a little bit around you, you can see how they have almost a society as complex as ours tucked in within our society. I think it's really cool. It's really true, and it's just fun to be like, there's new species, new species—I just like to collect them.

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Sam: Is there anything about the Chesapeake Bay or Maryland that you really like?

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Sarah: All of it. I love the Chesapeake Bay. I'm a proud CBF member. I don't know—I think that it's like, I lived in Texas for seven years, so I was living in areas that I had no access to a large body of water other than a man-made lake, which does not have the same charm.

But I think it's just a great resource for community, for the economy, obviously for conservation. There's so much that it gives us constantly. If we didn't have a healthy bay, things would start failing in communities, in society. So I just feel passionate about taking care of it and nursing it back to health—so cheesy—but just doing what I can to help keep it as healthy as possible. And it is getting healthier over time, so that is exciting.

 

Sam: How long have you been working in [your current] area?

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Sarah: In my current role, I've been in for three years, and then before that I was at the nonprofit for like a year and a half, so four years.

 

Sam: Have you seen any changes, like things getting better or worse, or is it kind of staying the same?

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Sarah: I think that the policy is getting worse rapidly, but I also think that more people are stepping up, taking small actions to help in their local communities—kind of like you guys are doing with this fellows project. More people seem to care because the policy is getting worse, and they're realizing, like, oh, actually that was really important, and I do care about that, and so now I'm gonna play a part in making it right.

And also, social media is pushing a lot of stuff. I see stuff all the time—it's probably just my algorithm—but I see stuff all the time about new plastic alternatives that are being made somewhere in Asia or somewhere in Europe, or different ways to get electricity from the ocean in other areas of the world. So I feel like there are a lot of people who are working on projects, putting it out there, and it's reaching people through social media.

And I don't know if you guys are familiar with this one creator on Instagram, but he's very popular for always putting out positive climate news—maybe you've seen his videos or something. That's getting much more popular right now, is that people are looking for the positive, and then that spreads interest in the positive and investment in the positive. So I do think that there's more hope than people are led to believe. It is good progress. It's good.

 

Sam: Is there something specific that you've learned through your time working with the environment that you wish more people knew?

 

Sarah: I just wish that more people would do the small things. I think it's easy to think just one thing doesn't matter, and like I'm just one person, I'm not gonna make a difference, but it really is small actions that snowball and turn into huge outcomes.

So I guess also be on the lookout for public meetings and opportunities to give your feedback, and reach out to your representatives about things in your community. You have so much power in your local community that then, if it turns into change, can inspire the region, can inspire the state, can inspire the whole U.S., and then have global impact. It all starts small. So I guess that's my thing I would tell the world—just make your small little efforts.

 

Sam: What are some of those small efforts you see having big impacts?

 

Sarah: What’s a good example…

 

Olivia: I was thinking about the plastic bag ban in Baltimore. That was kids.

 

Sarah: Like the oyster bed raising and recycling oyster shells—that's a huge one that the Chesapeake Bay Foundation is doing all the time. They're getting the old recycled oyster shells, turning them into reef balls, growing new spat on them, and then releasing those back into the water. They're studying that in Texas—they're looking at that as a case study for Galveston Bay, and they're doing that down there too.

So it's like a small “recycle your oyster shells,” and now that's making a big difference. Or composting—I feel like it's an easy one to do at home that people never think about. All you do is put your food scraps into a thing and twist it around, and then that's it, then it turns into dirt slowly.

I think there's a lot of small little actions, and it doesn't have to be environmental—it can be anything that you're passionate about. If you're passionate about food shortages, then volunteer for four hours at your local food bank—it goes a long way.

 

Olivia: To wrap up, what advice would you give to students who want to work in the intersection of environmental protection and real-world development?

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Sarah: When I started my career, I wish I had known… like really looking deeply into what the day-to-day work would be, because there are environmental jobs where you are doing mostly field work and you're analyzing what the wetlands are like, what the species are doing, what's present out there. You're spending a lot of time truly in the environment—in the water, in forests and stuff.

And I think that for me, I wish that I would've known that was an option, or like I guess I knew it was an option, but that it was a viable option—that you can have a true career option—versus there are jobs where you're doing more policy work, more technical writing, more desktop research.

So I think I would just suggest identifying your strong suits—is it being out in the field or being in the office—and then following that path. But there's a lot of things you can do in the environmental sector. There’s endless jobs, and you can work in a national park or you can be a lawyer—there's so many options. So just figure that out as soon as you can, but don't feel like once you're in it you have to stay—you can always pivot.

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